Interview With Floyd Hayes Of Cunning NYC

Floyd Hayes is Creative Bloke at ‘alternative advertising agency’ Cunning NYC. He joined Cunning London in 1998 and created the now famous Houses of Parliament FHM projection which won Stunt of the Century award by the BBC. Two years ago he moved to New York to work with US clients including Cadbury Adams, L’Oreal, JWT and Scion. IF tracked him down for a chat.

So how did you get to where you are today?

I’ve always been into playfulness – into stuff like Lego as a kid, practical jokes, comedy. I was in bands for more than a decade as I got older. We had to promote ourselves, make do with the limited resources. You have to be very creative when you’re skint. Later I managed bars: there you learn about banter, interaction, energy, rapport and empathy. It’s very important empathy. So I was running these bars, carrying on promotions when one day Cunning sent me a few briefs to see what my ideas were like. I just approached it with a fun attitude and used my common sense.

I got the job and I started by running a landmark project in guerrilla marketing history: projecting a photo of model Gail Porter onto the Houses of Parliament to promote mens’ magazine FHM. That started everything. Two years ago, I moved from London to New York to help launch Cunning NYC.

Why do you call Cunning an alternative advertising agency?

We used to say, non traditional advertising: we created events that caused 2 way dialogue between consumers and brand and these events got media coverage.

Now we like to say we engage in 3D advertising. Brand owners have to think differently today. More American children use the web than they watch TV.

So, is this the death of the 30 second spot?

TV ads aren’t going to disappear for a long time. We’ll see things like a move to advertiser funded programming and TV on the web you can interact with.

The thing is, I love great advertising. As a kid we used to love them – despite being brought up as a ‘tragic hippy child’. If a great ad showed on TV one night, if you didn’t know about it the next day on the school playground you’d be shunned.

As long as ads remain relevant and engaging, there’ll be a place for them on TV.

Do you enjoy the ads you watch on TV today?

Erm, I don’t have a TV.

You’re an ad guy and you don’t have a TV?

Real life is far more interesting and stimulating. I love TV shows – but I just want to watch what I want to watch, when I want to watch them. Therefore I only have a DVD player.

I can’t knock you. I run 2 marketing sites and I don’t watch TV either. How do you keep abreast with what’s going on in advertising?

Well if I want to know what’s happening in TV advertising, I read the trade press, the marketing blogs – even IF and PSFK! You have to be careful: what Cunning tries to do is offer something different. If everyone in ad land is watching the same stuff, you’re just going to get the same stuff out. Garbage In – Garbage Out, as they say.

So are you an alternative to existing agencies?

In some ways – but in other ways we complement. You see we’re great believers in ‘Rewarded Comprehension’ – where a brand owner creates promotional activity but it’s the consumer who gets it – ‘ahh, that’s the new Levi’s ad’. There’s a discovery of message – which is hopefully enjoyable (therefore rewarding).

We can act as an alternative to traditional advertising and often do with clients who have imagination but not the kind of budgets to throw at TV.

However, like all marketing, we work best as part of a well-thought out “comms mix.” You see what we’re doing at street level “bringing brands to life”, and then you see the same message in a computer game, online, in a bar, on the TV, on your cell – it all helps. Mind you, a lousy campaign bombarding you from every direction can be a real turn-off…

Tell me about your team at Cunning?

They’re an eclectic bunch of people. Some have classic ad backgrounds, some came from the movie business, one came from the PR side of fund raising (having to raise as much money for as little budget as possible).In some ways, they’re all sales people – whether they realize it or now.

How do you select members of your team?

Attitude. If they’re not very playful and fun and open minded, then I’d be suspicious. People who take themselves too seriously should be avoided.

Let’s talk about how brands work with their agencies. How can brands inspire creativity in their agencies?

I think the main problem is that a lot of client briefs are like tax returns – and the presentations of them aren’t better than visiting your accountants. You’ve got to excite the whole team about your product whether it’s a pair of jeans or a shampoo. One great example is where a client took us to a target audience member’s house for the day. We poked around, looked at her DVDs, the food in her cupboard. By the end, we felt we knew her – the whole session stimulated active minds.

That may be beyond many clients’ means, but they could just try simple tricks like a different location – avoiding endless meetings in boardrooms with endless slides in PowerPoint. We’re not mining coal here, we should remember that: if we all got the opportunity to get out of the office for the day, and everyone was looking forward to it – imagine the good that would be done.

OK, a client could turn round and say, “It’s your job to be creative, not mine.” But at the end of the day it’s about getting the best out of people.

What about the actual brief?

Try not to be all things to all people. And stop asking your agency to ‘make our brand famous’. Think about your story. All brands have to: great brands tell great stories. – look at Vitamin Water: someone’s start up. You know it comes from a small team, and someone takes pride in it. Also, you can get across the idea of a well loved product without putting a story about the founder on the side.

OK, so once you’re briefed, what’s the formula to making great creative work?

When you asked that question, I thought of an agency in London that had a ‘creative floor’ with a ball pool. If you wanted to be creative you went and sat in the pool and brainstormed with your team. I don’t know if I agree with that ‘Lights On: Lights Off approach’, you know, now I’m in this pool of balls I am instantly creative… For me, it’s about attitude. You need freedom and you need to be relaxed. Ideas can come to you anytime – Believe it or not, you can have great creative ideas in a cubicle.

One thing about the ad business I don’t like is how creativity seems to be commoditized and what’s with it with not putting creatives in front of clients.

So, How Do You Get To Your Ideas?

Input plus life experience equals output. Don’t watch TV ad reels, don’t read marketing books. You really have to use real life to inspire you. My favorite story is the one about Picasso – this lady at a party asks for a sketch. Picasso whips out a pen and does this great sketch of the lady. When he hands it over, she says, “But it only took ten seconds.” “No,” he replied, “It took a lifetime.”

Cunning NYC